Wednesday, 27 April 2011

Doctor Who Blip — River's Lies Overflow

Last night on Twitter @squigglywhosan presented a rather interesting question to the Moff himself.
"why does River know Rory now [in "Impossible Astronaut"] when she didn't know him in the Big Bang? Isn't that episode in her future?"
Steven Moffat then mysteriously replied.
"She DOES know him, she pretends not to. Spoilers."
Thanks to Matt Turner for pointing this out to us!

11 Comments:

D Roers said...

I was thinking, how does Rory know River; he’s never met her before “The Impossible Astronaut”. Rory at the end of the Big Bang answers Amy’s question of who left the blue book for her as “some woman”. And Rory the Roman wasn’t really Rory, so he wouldn’t have any memories of being a Roman…

TheMarkJoe said...

Well his memories of the Doctor came back when the TARDIS materialised at the wedding reception, you can hear him say the great line "How could we forget the Doctor? I was plastic he was the stripper at my stag do." So presumably all the other memories including those of River are back too.

D Roers said...

Hmm, I’ll have to go back and listen to that part again; I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t recall him saying “I was plastic”. But if you’re right, then I think it’s odd that Rory would have a memory that wasn’t his… but what do I know about coming back from never having existed. Not a whole lot.

Scriberunner said...

Was it mentioned in "Impossible Astronaut" that "Big Bang" is in her future?

AdamBeardTC said...

Maybe River has pictures of all of the companions in her book as well as all the Doctor's...

D0ct0r11 said...

Yes, Rory does say "I was plastic. He was the stripper at my stag do".

Scriberunner, it can be presumed that this series opener is after the Series 5 finale, as River packs her bags in the Stormcage "again". Although she could have broken out many times before. :P

TheMarkJoe said...

Basically every story in which River features it's from an earlier point in her timeline.

So Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead happens after Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone happens after The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang happens after The Impossible Astronaut/ Day of the Moon.

So whenever River appears again none of these events will have happened yet for her. But it makes sense for her to recognise Rory because, as with the Doctor, she first met Amy and Rory further into her past we just haven't seen any of it yet.

Reba said...

By the same token she would not know Amy either if this is before Pandorica and time of the angels.
The more I think about it the more confused I become with her time line!

Scriberunner said...

@TheMarkJoe - I don't buy it. It's never said that her appearances are in a backwards linear arc. In fact, doesn't she give the impression in her first appearance that the crash of the Byzantium was relatively early on in their relationship?

I may well be imagining that, of course - and subsequent events seem to disprove it. BUT she is also just "Dr" Song when battling the Angels, not "Professor".

And the last time she saw the doctor before Forest of the Dead was when he came to give her a sonic screwdriver -- at which point he knew her well. That would be an impossibility if we only saw her in reverse chronological order.

In any event, it's much more fun for the two to meet at random intervals. Though hard to follow.

TheMarkJoe said...

River said herself she and the Doctor are moving in opposite directions and we've seen it up to the point he doesn't know her at all in the Library, which, sort of does kill her figuratively and literally.

Remember the very first time RIVER meets the Doctor he knows everything, has been through everything with her. Who knows maybe Amy and Rory were there as well. So for those three it was just another encounter but for River it was the first time. Therefore at any point after that she will recognise them.

Acknowledging having met them is in the vein of spoilers, so not doing so and appearing to regard Rory as a stranger in The Big Bang could be for any number of reasons. But I really do believe that every time we, the audience, see River we're back a bit further into her past until her first encounter with the Doctor.

His future her past.

Clunkily, it'd be like the Doctor saying to River in the The Big Bang "Next time you see me we'll be up against the Weeping Angels" and River replying "Next time you see me we'll be up against the Silence"

eve11 said...

LOL Steven. But guys, did you forget that in the point in history in the Pandorica Opens, Rory had been erased from history? Um, even AMY didn't know him. The only person who remembered him was the Doctor. And Rory was intertwined with River's history, so it makes sense that she wouldn't remember him either.

Had Rory not been erased from history (past, present, future, etc), River would have known him.